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	<title>Comments on: Rep. John Murtha dies</title>
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	<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/</link>
	<description>Obsessive political analysis</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 17:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54554</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54554</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Obviously Cliff has given up trying to use his version of reason.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, I've given up on talking to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Obviously Cliff has given up trying to use his version of reason.</i></p>
<p>Actually, I&#8217;ve given up on talking to you.</p>
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		<title>By: deleted</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54309</link>
		<dc:creator>deleted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54309</guid>
		<description>Obviously Cliff has given up trying to use his version of reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously Cliff has given up trying to use his version of reason.</p>
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		<title>By: deleted</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54057</link>
		<dc:creator>deleted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54057</guid>
		<description>Cliff, you said "Uhh, I seem to remember the GOP winning a rather significant special election a few weeks ago…" you harp on about one special Senate election. Yes it was a good victory (with 53% of the vote). But then you dismiss 9 special House elections. Obviously a senator matter but so do 9 congressmen.

Cliff, I can see why you get annoyed with people extrapoloating, maybe incorrectly, your positions. But you come across, sometimes, as very partisan and seeing no wrong on the GOP side and no good on the Democratic side. If you just continued to engage in reasoned discussion (like your last paragraph) then you would not get as many people complaining and "picking" on you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff, you said &#8220;Uhh, I seem to remember the GOP winning a rather significant special election a few weeks ago…&#8221; you harp on about one special Senate election. Yes it was a good victory (with 53% of the vote). But then you dismiss 9 special House elections. Obviously a senator matter but so do 9 congressmen.</p>
<p>Cliff, I can see why you get annoyed with people extrapoloating, maybe incorrectly, your positions. But you come across, sometimes, as very partisan and seeing no wrong on the GOP side and no good on the Democratic side. If you just continued to engage in reasoned discussion (like your last paragraph) then you would not get as many people complaining and &#8220;picking&#8221; on you.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54050</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54050</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Taniel, I wouldn`t expect Cliff to admit the Democrats have done well in so many special elections since it goes against the dominant conventional wisdom (and we know how that can look soooo wrong in retrospective) of the Dems being inept, stupid and the GOP being all conquering.&lt;/i&gt;

What is up with people on this cite making $#!t up, attributing it to me, then saying why obviously I am wrong about something that I never said?

I swear, just about every single person on this cite does this.  It's very annoying.  I don't mind defending my actual positions.  I grow tired of defending positions I never took.

I never DENIED that Dems have done well in special elections in the past couple of years.  That much is obvious.  What I denied was that they got a clean sweep, which they didn't.  The most significant special election was in Massachusetts, and we won it.  I didn't notice Taniel's qualifier of the DCCC.

And the idea that I have portrayed the GOP as "all conquering" is absolutely absurd to any rational reading of anything I've ever said around here.  I've FREQUENTLY said I expect certain Republican candidates to lose, or that I think they will run a strong race but I recognize the odds are against them.

I have pushed back against really stupid things people have said around here, say, for example, that Dennis Moore's retirement doesn't really matter because the D's are still slightly favored to hold the seat.  I said that the D's won't likely even field a top tier challenger and won't fund a lesser challenger.  With Joe Reardon's exit from consideration, I've pretty much been proven right on that seat.  

The Republicans are likely to gain at least 30 seats in the house and 6-8 in the Senate.  It is not out of bounds to see them retaking the House.  I wouldn't go so far as Dick Morris to say they are going to take the Senate, but it's not really that much of a longshot then them taking the Senate in '80.  That isn't to say they will retake either house, just that it's possible, very possible in the case of the house, although the odds are probably slightly less then 50/50 for the house and about 10/90 in the Senate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Taniel, I wouldn`t expect Cliff to admit the Democrats have done well in so many special elections since it goes against the dominant conventional wisdom (and we know how that can look soooo wrong in retrospective) of the Dems being inept, stupid and the GOP being all conquering.</i></p>
<p>What is up with people on this cite making $#!t up, attributing it to me, then saying why obviously I am wrong about something that I never said?</p>
<p>I swear, just about every single person on this cite does this.  It&#8217;s very annoying.  I don&#8217;t mind defending my actual positions.  I grow tired of defending positions I never took.</p>
<p>I never DENIED that Dems have done well in special elections in the past couple of years.  That much is obvious.  What I denied was that they got a clean sweep, which they didn&#8217;t.  The most significant special election was in Massachusetts, and we won it.  I didn&#8217;t notice Taniel&#8217;s qualifier of the DCCC.</p>
<p>And the idea that I have portrayed the GOP as &#8220;all conquering&#8221; is absolutely absurd to any rational reading of anything I&#8217;ve ever said around here.  I&#8217;ve FREQUENTLY said I expect certain Republican candidates to lose, or that I think they will run a strong race but I recognize the odds are against them.</p>
<p>I have pushed back against really stupid things people have said around here, say, for example, that Dennis Moore&#8217;s retirement doesn&#8217;t really matter because the D&#8217;s are still slightly favored to hold the seat.  I said that the D&#8217;s won&#8217;t likely even field a top tier challenger and won&#8217;t fund a lesser challenger.  With Joe Reardon&#8217;s exit from consideration, I&#8217;ve pretty much been proven right on that seat.  </p>
<p>The Republicans are likely to gain at least 30 seats in the house and 6-8 in the Senate.  It is not out of bounds to see them retaking the House.  I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as Dick Morris to say they are going to take the Senate, but it&#8217;s not really that much of a longshot then them taking the Senate in &#8216;80.  That isn&#8217;t to say they will retake either house, just that it&#8217;s possible, very possible in the case of the house, although the odds are probably slightly less then 50/50 for the house and about 10/90 in the Senate.</p>
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		<title>By: MSW</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54046</link>
		<dc:creator>MSW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54046</guid>
		<description>The Democrats have won several special elections since 2006, but we should look at the factors that are involved.  With IL-14 and LA-6, the Democrats had the superior candidates and the nation had a strong Democratic tilt.  With MS-1, both parties had good candidates, but Childers was able to win because he had conservative credentials.  Many of the Southern districts will support Democratic candidates because these candidates are much more conservative than the Democratic party.

With NY-20, the Republican candidate imploded.  NY-23 was eerily similar, with a Conservative able to make the Republican candidate withdraw.  Dede ended up endorsing Owens, so that probably put him over the top.

PA-12 has a strong Democratic bench.  While the McCain won this district, albeit barely, Gore and Kerry won this district (as it is drawn now) in 2000 and 2004.  However, the Republicans have the momentum on the national front.  This will be a close race, and it really depends on who the candidates are.  If the Democrats pick a strong candidate, it will be the Democrats race to lose.  Just like it was for Coakley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrats have won several special elections since 2006, but we should look at the factors that are involved.  With IL-14 and LA-6, the Democrats had the superior candidates and the nation had a strong Democratic tilt.  With MS-1, both parties had good candidates, but Childers was able to win because he had conservative credentials.  Many of the Southern districts will support Democratic candidates because these candidates are much more conservative than the Democratic party.</p>
<p>With NY-20, the Republican candidate imploded.  NY-23 was eerily similar, with a Conservative able to make the Republican candidate withdraw.  Dede ended up endorsing Owens, so that probably put him over the top.</p>
<p>PA-12 has a strong Democratic bench.  While the McCain won this district, albeit barely, Gore and Kerry won this district (as it is drawn now) in 2000 and 2004.  However, the Republicans have the momentum on the national front.  This will be a close race, and it really depends on who the candidates are.  If the Democrats pick a strong candidate, it will be the Democrats race to lose.  Just like it was for Coakley.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54036</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54036</guid>
		<description>Taniel, I wouldn`t expect Cliff to admit the Democrats have done well in so many special elections since it goes against the dominant conventional wisdom (and we know how that can look soooo wrong in retrospective) of the Dems being inept, stupid and the GOP being all conquering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taniel, I wouldn`t expect Cliff to admit the Democrats have done well in so many special elections since it goes against the dominant conventional wisdom (and we know how that can look soooo wrong in retrospective) of the Dems being inept, stupid and the GOP being all conquering.</p>
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		<title>By: Taniel</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-54010</link>
		<dc:creator>Taniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-54010</guid>
		<description>gerard, 

I try to remember to think about redistricting, but on this one thank you for reminding me as I completely forgot. Pennsylvania is slated to lose a congressional seat next year. While I doubt we will be able to point to one specific seat as having been eliminated (the way LA-03 is expected to be drawn out of existence in Louisiana), I imagine Western Pennsylvania's map will be especially shuffled so whoever wins the special election might have to campaign in a different district soonafter. On the other hand: I expect there to be other freshmen congressmen in Pennsylvania come January 2011, not to mention that the potential retirements of congressmen like Kanjorski could help the legislature create more havoc in Northeastern Pennsylvania than in the Western part.

In any case, a lot will depend on who controls the legislating process. Democrats are now underdogs in the Governor's race, which makes it critically important that they defend their tenuous House majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gerard, </p>
<p>I try to remember to think about redistricting, but on this one thank you for reminding me as I completely forgot. Pennsylvania is slated to lose a congressional seat next year. While I doubt we will be able to point to one specific seat as having been eliminated (the way LA-03 is expected to be drawn out of existence in Louisiana), I imagine Western Pennsylvania&#8217;s map will be especially shuffled so whoever wins the special election might have to campaign in a different district soonafter. On the other hand: I expect there to be other freshmen congressmen in Pennsylvania come January 2011, not to mention that the potential retirements of congressmen like Kanjorski could help the legislature create more havoc in Northeastern Pennsylvania than in the Western part.</p>
<p>In any case, a lot will depend on who controls the legislating process. Democrats are now underdogs in the Governor&#8217;s race, which makes it critically important that they defend their tenuous House majority.</p>
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		<title>By: gerard</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-53986</link>
		<dc:creator>gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-53986</guid>
		<description>The 12th district meanders through 9 different counties, so it could be a challenge for anyone can lock up the vote amongst all of these county committees.  Former Lt. Gov. Singel would seem to have an advantage here, although the 2 state Senators mentioned are obviously currently in the game.  Singel has less to loss from redistricting and could of course pull strings to help his own new district.  The state senators might not want to risk their safe seats for a new congressional seat that will be redrawn next year, although both are long term incumbents and could also have some pull with the state legislature even if they leave the Pa. State Senate to go on to the US Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 12th district meanders through 9 different counties, so it could be a challenge for anyone can lock up the vote amongst all of these county committees.  Former Lt. Gov. Singel would seem to have an advantage here, although the 2 state Senators mentioned are obviously currently in the game.  Singel has less to loss from redistricting and could of course pull strings to help his own new district.  The state senators might not want to risk their safe seats for a new congressional seat that will be redrawn next year, although both are long term incumbents and could also have some pull with the state legislature even if they leave the Pa. State Senate to go on to the US Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-53975</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-53975</guid>
		<description>Ah, missed the DCCC thing.  You're right about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, missed the DCCC thing.  You&#8217;re right about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Taniel</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2010/02/08/rep-john-murtha-dies/comment-page-1/#comment-53973</link>
		<dc:creator>Taniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=11575#comment-53973</guid>
		<description>Cliff, I did say I was talking about the DCCC's streak of special election victories, so Massachusetts does not enter that: You have to admit that the DCCC has pulled off an unlikely streak there, since 5 of these 9 victories can be considered upsets (LA-6, MS-1, OH-14, NY-23, NY-20).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff, I did say I was talking about the DCCC&#8217;s streak of special election victories, so Massachusetts does not enter that: You have to admit that the DCCC has pulled off an unlikely streak there, since 5 of these 9 victories can be considered upsets (LA-6, MS-1, OH-14, NY-23, NY-20).</p>
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