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Comments on: Of the power of conservative Senate Democrats
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http://campaigndiaries.com/2009/03/30/of-the-power/ Obsessive political analysis Thu, 23 Nov 2017 18:37:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Guy
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http://campaigndiaries.com/2009/03/30/of-the-power/comment-page-1/#comment-13268 Guy
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Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:46:05 +0000
http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=7221#comment-13268 I agree with MSW - discussion between groups and parties is how a democracy is meant to work and has worked in the past in the US. If the new "centrist" group does have 18 Democratic seantors then they are a major group with one third of the total number of Democratic senators. The Democrats have senators all over the country so they are likely to be diverse. For example a Democrat in Nebraska is bound to be more Conservative than one in Vermont! The GOP is more ideologically pure because it is a regional party. I agree with Taniel that Centrists need to get off saying - we have no ideology, we are pragmatic. Sometimes the "extreme" is needed. I agree with MSW - discussion between groups and parties is how a democracy is meant to work and has worked in the past in the US.

If the new “centrist” group does have 18 Democratic seantors then they are a major group with one third of the total number of Democratic senators. The Democrats have senators all over the country so they are likely to be diverse. For example a Democrat in Nebraska is bound to be more Conservative than one in Vermont! The GOP is more ideologically pure because it is a regional party.

I agree with Taniel that Centrists need to get off saying - we have no ideology, we are pragmatic. Sometimes the “extreme” is needed.

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By: Jaxx Raxor
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http://campaigndiaries.com/2009/03/30/of-the-power/comment-page-1/#comment-13259 Jaxx Raxor
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Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:59:28 +0000
http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=7221#comment-13259 It's important to know that the Democratic party is more ideologically diverse than the Republican party. In the 21st century, there are quite a few conservative Democrats and many moderates, while in the GOP liberals are almost non-existant and moderates are smaller in the GOP than in the Democratic Party. Also, the GOP is much more of a leadership oriented party and more displined when it comes to party line votes, while dissent is more acceptable among Democrats. That is why even moderates generally went along with Bush during the years in his administration where he was popular, they were overwhelmed by conservative pressure. In addition, when it comes to swing districts Republicans are more likely to be conservative than Democrats in swing districts, who may be more moderate. And of course it is much less likely for the their to be GOP representatives in clear Democratic leaning districts than vice-versa for Democrats. Therethore, any Democratic president (including a popular one) will have a hard time controlling thier party compared to a popular GOP president. In a way, for Obama to have such trouble could be helpful because he doesn't just rush and make made decisions, and we know that the strong right polices that the GOP put through without question helped to drag them all down when Bush became very unpopular. Of course it is also possible that conservative Democrats could hurt the very party they are part of by critizing Obama's polices as too liberal, but I seriously doubt the GOP would make more but minimal net gains in Congress and no chance of the GOP taking at least one chamber of Congress unless Obama suddenly becomes extremely unpopular, which is something I do not see as of now. It’s important to know that the Democratic party is more ideologically diverse than the Republican party. In the 21st century, there are quite a few conservative Democrats and many moderates, while in the GOP liberals are almost non-existant and moderates are smaller in the GOP than in the Democratic Party. Also, the GOP is much more of a leadership oriented party and more displined when it comes to party line votes, while dissent is more acceptable among Democrats. That is why even moderates generally went along with Bush during the years in his administration where he was popular, they were overwhelmed by conservative pressure. In addition, when it comes to swing districts Republicans are more likely to be conservative than Democrats in swing districts, who may be more moderate. And of course it is much less likely for the their to be GOP representatives in clear Democratic leaning districts than vice-versa for Democrats.

Therethore, any Democratic president (including a popular one) will have a hard time controlling thier party compared to a popular GOP president. In a way, for Obama to have such trouble could be helpful because he doesn’t just rush and make made decisions, and we know that the strong right polices that the GOP put through without question helped to drag them all down when Bush became very unpopular. Of course it is also possible that conservative Democrats could hurt the very party they are part of by critizing Obama’s polices as too liberal, but I seriously doubt the GOP would make more but minimal net gains in Congress and no chance of the GOP taking at least one chamber of Congress unless Obama suddenly becomes extremely unpopular, which is something I do not see as of now.

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By: MSW
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http://campaigndiaries.com/2009/03/30/of-the-power/comment-page-1/#comment-13255 MSW
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Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:55:40 +0000
http://campaigndiaries.com/?p=7221#comment-13255 This is a great post, and it also points out one issue that hasn't been addressed: Democrats are able to speak out against a Democratic administration without fear of retribution, while Republicans, for the most part, lived in fear of speaking out against the Bush administration because they knew that there would be dire consequences. I think it's great that Bayh and other centrists are able to voice out their concerns about budget issues. Opening up lines of healthy discussion has been missing from the Senate for a long time. In addition, having the centrist faction exist gives other moderate Republicans some cover to actually vote for some strong legislation. The major risk is that communication lines break down between the centrist and the more liberal faction of the Democratic caucus. This is a great post, and it also points out one issue that hasn’t been addressed: Democrats are able to speak out against a Democratic administration without fear of retribution, while Republicans, for the most part, lived in fear of speaking out against the Bush administration because they knew that there would be dire consequences.

I think it’s great that Bayh and other centrists are able to voice out their concerns about budget issues. Opening up lines of healthy discussion has been missing from the Senate for a long time. In addition, having the centrist faction exist gives other moderate Republicans some cover to actually vote for some strong legislation.

The major risk is that communication lines break down between the centrist and the more liberal faction of the Democratic caucus.

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