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	<title>Comments on: The Palin pick, a few hours later</title>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: WebMetricsGuru &#187; Some thoughts about Using Radian6 to figure out Sarah Palin VP Pick</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3450</link>
		<dc:creator>WebMetricsGuru &#187; Some thoughts about Using Radian6 to figure out Sarah Palin VP Pick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] shaping on weather Sarah Palin has the experience) is on the AOL Message Boards, Go My Town, and Campaign Diaries - I took an except from Campaign Diaries post, below &#8220;&#8230;If my first post’s general [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] shaping on weather Sarah Palin has the experience) is on the AOL Message Boards, Go My Town, and Campaign Diaries - I took an except from Campaign Diaries post, below &#8220;&#8230;If my first post’s general [...]</p>
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		<title>By: zoot</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3449</link>
		<dc:creator>zoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'm concerned by the impact this will have, but not for the reasons Robert V posits.

As I've noted before, Palin must be handled with extraordinary care. We have more than enough exposed nerve ends on the gender issue as it is. If 'inexperience' verges into perceived gender bias, Obama has a problem. Ditto, that BS about 'who will take care of the children?' Or any comments about appearance. Beyond that, the normal hardball attacks on male candidates have to be muted into a respectful tone, and Biden for example has to carefully avoid the wisecracks and focus on speaking positively on his experience and Obama's knowledge of foreign policy to allow the voters to reach their own conclusions. Even so, it's hard to control enthusiastic supporters, witness some of the extreme comments from fellow Obama supporters that convinced many Clinton voters that the campaign itself was perfused with sexism.

On top of gender issues, Palin clearly has energized the radical evangelical base, and McCain cannot win by abandoning them. The last few months and Obama's choice of Biden dilutes the experience argument for some voters. Worst case, like Robert V, many Clinton voters will hold their noses and vote for him. Social issues will bring along another group of voters; the PUMA bunch can"t make a difference, despite all their noise.  That minimizes McCain's chances of pulling in one tranche of Clinton voters: relatively well educated and affluent urban and suburban Dems and requires him to tilt right. (I know, McCain wanted Holy Joe, but IMO this is how his advisors convinced him to choose Palin.)

But that doesn't account for all the Clinton supporters.  There's a far different constituency of  vague Dems and independents. much less concerned about choice and environment and much more focused on their own daily lives, as they should be. They're going to find her very likable and plain spoken, and she can address energy issues with greater perceived expertise than McCain can. In fact, he may designate her a spokesperson on the issue. Those voters are likely to remain disinterested in her support for Buchanan, her disregard for the environment, her support for intelligent design and her extreme social positions - in fact, they may find them comforting. Foreign policy expertise? No disrespect, but while this cohort reacts to testosterone dripping GOP language, they just are not into the nuances of foreign policy once you get beyond terrorism. They are not as apt to connect her inexperience and apparent lack of interest with the difficult diplomatic circumstances we face.

She's a working mother with a fisherman husband who's found a way to combine politics with family life, she speaks their language and attacks on her risk both a gender backlash and a revival of the 'elite' argument. The Dems are confronted with two issues: gender and class. In the end, the latter could be decisive. It certainly compounds Obama's difficulty in connecting with this group of voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m concerned by the impact this will have, but not for the reasons Robert V posits.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve noted before, Palin must be handled with extraordinary care. We have more than enough exposed nerve ends on the gender issue as it is. If &#8216;inexperience&#8217; verges into perceived gender bias, Obama has a problem. Ditto, that BS about &#8216;who will take care of the children?&#8217; Or any comments about appearance. Beyond that, the normal hardball attacks on male candidates have to be muted into a respectful tone, and Biden for example has to carefully avoid the wisecracks and focus on speaking positively on his experience and Obama&#8217;s knowledge of foreign policy to allow the voters to reach their own conclusions. Even so, it&#8217;s hard to control enthusiastic supporters, witness some of the extreme comments from fellow Obama supporters that convinced many Clinton voters that the campaign itself was perfused with sexism.</p>
<p>On top of gender issues, Palin clearly has energized the radical evangelical base, and McCain cannot win by abandoning them. The last few months and Obama&#8217;s choice of Biden dilutes the experience argument for some voters. Worst case, like Robert V, many Clinton voters will hold their noses and vote for him. Social issues will bring along another group of voters; the PUMA bunch can&#8221;t make a difference, despite all their noise.  That minimizes McCain&#8217;s chances of pulling in one tranche of Clinton voters: relatively well educated and affluent urban and suburban Dems and requires him to tilt right. (I know, McCain wanted Holy Joe, but IMO this is how his advisors convinced him to choose Palin.)</p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t account for all the Clinton supporters.  There&#8217;s a far different constituency of  vague Dems and independents. much less concerned about choice and environment and much more focused on their own daily lives, as they should be. They&#8217;re going to find her very likable and plain spoken, and she can address energy issues with greater perceived expertise than McCain can. In fact, he may designate her a spokesperson on the issue. Those voters are likely to remain disinterested in her support for Buchanan, her disregard for the environment, her support for intelligent design and her extreme social positions - in fact, they may find them comforting. Foreign policy expertise? No disrespect, but while this cohort reacts to testosterone dripping GOP language, they just are not into the nuances of foreign policy once you get beyond terrorism. They are not as apt to connect her inexperience and apparent lack of interest with the difficult diplomatic circumstances we face.</p>
<p>She&#8217;s a working mother with a fisherman husband who&#8217;s found a way to combine politics with family life, she speaks their language and attacks on her risk both a gender backlash and a revival of the &#8216;elite&#8217; argument. The Dems are confronted with two issues: gender and class. In the end, the latter could be decisive. It certainly compounds Obama&#8217;s difficulty in connecting with this group of voters.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert_V</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3448</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert_V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3448</guid>
		<description>Mike, you are making a distinction without a difference.  It still remains the fact that is Obama who is running for president not Palin.  You are gravely mistaken if you believe the Palin selection has anything to do with governance, and everything to do with driving the debate and creating the room for the comparisons between Obama and Palin whether fair or not.  We vote on the president.  The VP will be the attack dog as well as the lynch pin for a constituency or to secure a stare.  Only folks like us, political junkies, worry about the consequences of a VP selection two or three years down the road.  In the mean time, the Obama camp has to deal with the experience issue, which might well become the issue in this election, change looks venal and trivial when  our security is on the line.  And they also will have to explain, believe they will have to, why Sarah Palin is in a national ticket and Hillary Clinton is not.  And that will hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, you are making a distinction without a difference.  It still remains the fact that is Obama who is running for president not Palin.  You are gravely mistaken if you believe the Palin selection has anything to do with governance, and everything to do with driving the debate and creating the room for the comparisons between Obama and Palin whether fair or not.  We vote on the president.  The VP will be the attack dog as well as the lynch pin for a constituency or to secure a stare.  Only folks like us, political junkies, worry about the consequences of a VP selection two or three years down the road.  In the mean time, the Obama camp has to deal with the experience issue, which might well become the issue in this election, change looks venal and trivial when  our security is on the line.  And they also will have to explain, believe they will have to, why Sarah Palin is in a national ticket and Hillary Clinton is not.  And that will hurt.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>Robert V - I also appreciate consistency. So the GOP will be doing verbal gymnastics to explain why she is qualified enought to be President (underlying assumption is McCain will not make it to 80) when they say Obama is not experienced enough.

Obama has served 12 years of elected service in Illinois and in the Senate. Being mayor of a 5000 population won and then Governor for under 2 years is not the same. SImilar league maybe but still less.
Also she has no experience with foriegn affairs, unlike Obama. She had no view on the Iraq war until early 2007.  Obama laid out in detail in 2002 the issues he saw with the invasion so I think he has better judgement and experience than her.
But the real question is McCain's judgement and temperment. It seems like he shots from the hip (or lip) and doesn`t think through the consequences. We have had that for 8 years, not another 4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert V - I also appreciate consistency. So the GOP will be doing verbal gymnastics to explain why she is qualified enought to be President (underlying assumption is McCain will not make it to 80) when they say Obama is not experienced enough.</p>
<p>Obama has served 12 years of elected service in Illinois and in the Senate. Being mayor of a 5000 population won and then Governor for under 2 years is not the same. SImilar league maybe but still less.<br />
Also she has no experience with foriegn affairs, unlike Obama. She had no view on the Iraq war until early 2007.  Obama laid out in detail in 2002 the issues he saw with the invasion so I think he has better judgement and experience than her.<br />
But the real question is McCain&#8217;s judgement and temperment. It seems like he shots from the hip (or lip) and doesn`t think through the consequences. We have had that for 8 years, not another 4.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert_V</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3435</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert_V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3435</guid>
		<description>I voted for Al gore in 2000, John Kerry in 2004, and I will hold my nose and vote for Barack Obama in 2008, because I believe the most important issue facing this republic is the future of the Supreme Court.  We survived W the idiot, and can survive Barack the neophyte.  But the specter of another judge Scalia in the court sure send shivers up my spine.  That said and done, if we lose this election, a very real prospect, in a year that by all measures of political statistics and lore, should be a democratic year, we will have nobody to blame but our self.  Every so often in this blog I have made the devils advocate case against Barack Obama.  Even when I understand the deep emotional connection that many Obama followers have with Obama, a very fine man, I have grown tired of the intellectual gymnastics that is always made to describe his qualifications and accomplishments.  Truth is that he is barely more qualified that Sarah Palin.  If she is unqualified for the VP slot, them why is Barak qualified for the POTUS job?

My bone here is with intellectual dishonesty, on all sides.  And the believe that the American people buys this nonsense.  For a brief, and absurd moment, I contemplated voting for John McCain.  I have always had a warm spot for the guy.  He does not seem like the kind of ideologue that the GOP right love to nominate.  But he will not do.  Not when he offers Scalia and Roberts to the SC.  But to think that I for a second buy this crap about Obama’s qualifications is insulting.

What a lot of you fail to observe, our illustrious host included, is the level of anger and disgust that so many of us fell about the treatment that Hillary Clinton got from the most ardent Obama maniac, the main stream press and the Pelosi-Dean wing of the party.  If Obama goes down in defect, well, this folks knew for the longest time that his candidacy was a marginal one at best.  I am still convinced that HC would have been a better presidential candidate that Obama.  But that issue is settled.  The Obama camp better tread the Palin mine field carefully.  Any impressions that they are going after the “monster”, or the “B word”, or the bimbo as I heard before, will get an awful lot of folks, that are already smarting about this, very angry.

Look at the polls, barely coming out of his nomination party, he is basically in an statistical dead heat with McCain.  No looking good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I voted for Al gore in 2000, John Kerry in 2004, and I will hold my nose and vote for Barack Obama in 2008, because I believe the most important issue facing this republic is the future of the Supreme Court.  We survived W the idiot, and can survive Barack the neophyte.  But the specter of another judge Scalia in the court sure send shivers up my spine.  That said and done, if we lose this election, a very real prospect, in a year that by all measures of political statistics and lore, should be a democratic year, we will have nobody to blame but our self.  Every so often in this blog I have made the devils advocate case against Barack Obama.  Even when I understand the deep emotional connection that many Obama followers have with Obama, a very fine man, I have grown tired of the intellectual gymnastics that is always made to describe his qualifications and accomplishments.  Truth is that he is barely more qualified that Sarah Palin.  If she is unqualified for the VP slot, them why is Barak qualified for the POTUS job?</p>
<p>My bone here is with intellectual dishonesty, on all sides.  And the believe that the American people buys this nonsense.  For a brief, and absurd moment, I contemplated voting for John McCain.  I have always had a warm spot for the guy.  He does not seem like the kind of ideologue that the GOP right love to nominate.  But he will not do.  Not when he offers Scalia and Roberts to the SC.  But to think that I for a second buy this crap about Obama’s qualifications is insulting.</p>
<p>What a lot of you fail to observe, our illustrious host included, is the level of anger and disgust that so many of us fell about the treatment that Hillary Clinton got from the most ardent Obama maniac, the main stream press and the Pelosi-Dean wing of the party.  If Obama goes down in defect, well, this folks knew for the longest time that his candidacy was a marginal one at best.  I am still convinced that HC would have been a better presidential candidate that Obama.  But that issue is settled.  The Obama camp better tread the Palin mine field carefully.  Any impressions that they are going after the “monster”, or the “B word”, or the bimbo as I heard before, will get an awful lot of folks, that are already smarting about this, very angry.</p>
<p>Look at the polls, barely coming out of his nomination party, he is basically in an statistical dead heat with McCain.  No looking good.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3436</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3436</guid>
		<description>I don`t think this pick will make much difference - McCain will solidify the base but he will lose undecided Dems and Independents who don`t subscribe to the right wings social conservatism.
The buzz may well subside in a week during which you have the GOP convention which should be about McCain not Palin. Also you have other news like Hurricane Gustaf so lets see where we are in 2 weeks time - both in polling and news coverage. It is easy to get caught up in the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don`t think this pick will make much difference - McCain will solidify the base but he will lose undecided Dems and Independents who don`t subscribe to the right wings social conservatism.<br />
The buzz may well subside in a week during which you have the GOP convention which should be about McCain not Palin. Also you have other news like Hurricane Gustaf so lets see where we are in 2 weeks time - both in polling and news coverage. It is easy to get caught up in the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3437</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3437</guid>
		<description>It should be noted that McCain aides have said that Palin will learn from McCain and hope that she isn`t call to lead to soon (you never know when that will happen). Biden was chosen to lead from Day 1 if needed.

This is very risky for McCain because he is in essence admitting that he has chosen someone who is NOT ready to lead as of now. And will need on the job training. Ummm can`t see how Obama/Biden can now be attacked at all on these issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be noted that McCain aides have said that Palin will learn from McCain and hope that she isn`t call to lead to soon (you never know when that will happen). Biden was chosen to lead from Day 1 if needed.</p>
<p>This is very risky for McCain because he is in essence admitting that he has chosen someone who is NOT ready to lead as of now. And will need on the job training. Ummm can`t see how Obama/Biden can now be attacked at all on these issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3438</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3438</guid>
		<description>Urgon - you are right she does have potential. But the GOP would be very quick to point out if the shoe was on the other foot that voters deserve more than 65 days to assess someone who you rightly say could become President in the next 4 years if McCain dies. So I do not treat the selection as a joke I do think he put winning an election ahead of country.

The selection has upsides - solidifying the base (which was happening anyway due to dislike of Obama) and strengthing his position in western states.
But he has lost two agruments against Obama - experience and putting country first. The GOP in previous elections have chosen the vunerability they want to pursue, for example elitism and flip-flopping with Kerry. They then attack on thos points for months and months. McCain's campaign will essentially have to go back to the drawing board with 2 months to go and start new attacks.
She also doesn`t help McCain on the economy, but he had a limited range of picks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urgon - you are right she does have potential. But the GOP would be very quick to point out if the shoe was on the other foot that voters deserve more than 65 days to assess someone who you rightly say could become President in the next 4 years if McCain dies. So I do not treat the selection as a joke I do think he put winning an election ahead of country.</p>
<p>The selection has upsides - solidifying the base (which was happening anyway due to dislike of Obama) and strengthing his position in western states.<br />
But he has lost two agruments against Obama - experience and putting country first. The GOP in previous elections have chosen the vunerability they want to pursue, for example elitism and flip-flopping with Kerry. They then attack on thos points for months and months. McCain&#8217;s campaign will essentially have to go back to the drawing board with 2 months to go and start new attacks.<br />
She also doesn`t help McCain on the economy, but he had a limited range of picks.</p>
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		<title>By: Urgon</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3439</link>
		<dc:creator>Urgon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3439</guid>
		<description>I think many of you jump to conclusions. What Palin has that the other would be candidates lack is POTENTIAL. We all knew what Romney and the other guys would have brought to the ticket. No surprises - what you see is what you get.  And that probably wouldn't have been enough.
But Palin has the potential to grow, just like Obama grew, into a media phenomenon. If so, this pick will go down in history as a masterstroke.
Anyhow, I think it's not fair to describe this as a "gimmick". Like it or not, if McCain wins and then becomes incapacitated - she IS the new president. That's a fact, and so this selection should not be described as a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think many of you jump to conclusions. What Palin has that the other would be candidates lack is POTENTIAL. We all knew what Romney and the other guys would have brought to the ticket. No surprises - what you see is what you get.  And that probably wouldn&#8217;t have been enough.<br />
But Palin has the potential to grow, just like Obama grew, into a media phenomenon. If so, this pick will go down in history as a masterstroke.<br />
Anyhow, I think it&#8217;s not fair to describe this as a &#8220;gimmick&#8221;. Like it or not, if McCain wins and then becomes incapacitated - she IS the new president. That&#8217;s a fact, and so this selection should not be described as a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/08/29/the-palin-pick-a-few-hours-later/comment-page-1/#comment-3440</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaigndiaries.wordpress.com/?p=2130#comment-3440</guid>
		<description>More internet coverage that covers an important point. Obama put governing ahead of winning the election with his pock of Biden. McCan has put winning ahead of governing with Palin. She is a gimmick. If Kaine was too "inexperience" or unknown then Palin really is.

The case against Palin. The biggest negative about the pick is that on its face, it looks like a political gimmick, a political calculation. And McCain's supposed to be anything but a calculating or gimmicky pol. Indeed, as the Los Angeles Times wonders, isn’t McCain supposed to be the guy putting “country first” and not playing politics? The fact that McCain doesn't know Palin and spent all but a couple of hours getting to know her before making his pick is going to invite A LOT of judgment criticism. The perception is going to be that McCain panicked and wanted to do something radical to shake up the race. Well, he may have shaken up the race, but at the cost of undermining his best asset: that he was ready to lead. This decision doesn't look like it was well thought out, even as Palin has made a tremendous first impression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More internet coverage that covers an important point. Obama put governing ahead of winning the election with his pock of Biden. McCan has put winning ahead of governing with Palin. She is a gimmick. If Kaine was too &#8220;inexperience&#8221; or unknown then Palin really is.</p>
<p>The case against Palin. The biggest negative about the pick is that on its face, it looks like a political gimmick, a political calculation. And McCain&#8217;s supposed to be anything but a calculating or gimmicky pol. Indeed, as the Los Angeles Times wonders, isn’t McCain supposed to be the guy putting “country first” and not playing politics? The fact that McCain doesn&#8217;t know Palin and spent all but a couple of hours getting to know her before making his pick is going to invite A LOT of judgment criticism. The perception is going to be that McCain panicked and wanted to do something radical to shake up the race. Well, he may have shaken up the race, but at the cost of undermining his best asset: that he was ready to lead. This decision doesn&#8217;t look like it was well thought out, even as Palin has made a tremendous first impression.</p>
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